Yet another POV question

[thrihyrne]

So I'm actively writing on three things at once. Yay. Anyway, I was scrawling away this morning and wrote this, literally:

"Quelle domage dommage," Draco said, not sounding at all sorry. [question for flist]

My question was this: This story is from Ron's POV, third person limited. Ron doesn't know word one of French, except perhaps 'merde' or something equally appropriate. Is it acceptable for me to have Draco sound not at all sorry if Ron doesn't know the meaning of the phrase 'quel dommage'? It means "What a pity," and Draco's being sarcastic. But if this is Ron's POV, and I put that there, it seems to imply that he'd have an inkling of the meaning of the phrase. I guess I'm uncertain as to how much leniency I have within third-person limited POV and the way Draco's saying that versus Ron's understanding of what Draco said. I mean, I know this is splitting hairs and most people would just gloss over it, but I'm really quite unsure as to where third person limited starts and stops, sometimes. The obvious stuff is obvious, but something like this— I just don't know. Anyone? fabularasa, I suspect you'd know in a nanosecond. But I welcome anyone's theories and knowledge.

I'm writing this weekend. ::grins:: And our local library actually had a copy of Who Killed the Electric Car, so I'll be watching that with my parents later on tonight. Apparently I could also use a nap as I keep yawning. It's too bloody hot and sunny, too. Yuck. I suppose it is the end of August in the northern hemisphere, however, and I shouldn't be surprised. Mowing the lawn won't happen until tomorrow, that's for sure.

Hope you all are having a good weekend!

Comments

[hedwigs-bane.livejournal.com]

I'd have to say almost absolutely not. By the same token, many of your readers wouldn't know what it meant either, and so you could have Ron look quizzical or something so that Draco has to translate.

Hell, my beta wouldn't even let me have Ron say "merde"... LOL

[thrihyrne.livejournal.com]

Good point. Ron's next comment is, "What?" and Draco explains, but that part about him not sounding sorry will have to go. Ah well. *g*

[hedwigs-bane.livejournal.com]

Actually, you could always put after the explanation something like, "Ron would have had more confidence in Draco's translation had he actually sounded sorry when he'd made the remark", or some such...

[celandineb.livejournal.com]

If you're writing limited third from Ron's POV, and Ron wouldn't know the French, then you'll have to have Draco translate for Ron to know. Which is fine (serves the double purpose of making sure the reader also knows). And yeah, I think Draco would not be sorry for saying something Ron didn't know; he'd explain if asked but with a somewhat superior air about it. *g*

[maple-mahogany.livejournal.com]

This was going to be my suggestion as well.

I wasn't as sure of myself and would have waffled a lot. :P

I think celandinebhas the right idea though.

[thrihyrne.livejournal.com]

Thanks very much! I didn't quite explain the whole scene as well as I could, but I think I'm going to have to change that one part. I appreciate your input!

[thrihyrne.livejournal.com]

I just realized I didn't explain that well enough, actually. :headdesk: Draco's sounding not at all sorry because Ron has just told him he has a new intern who's going to be training with him, and the intern is from France. So Draco says the French phrase, but he's not sorry that Ron is going to have the intern. He's *totally* unapologetic about using the French phrase. I'll figure something out. :snert:

Thanks for your thoughts!!

[pghpatronus.livejournal.com]

*head spins*

Ummmm...
You see...

*wonders what the hell 3rd person limited is*
*has enough problems with POV to being with*
*feels stupid*

[thrihyrne.livejournal.com]

Not to worry, dear. Third person limited just means that as the reader, you're "in" one person's head: you get to know her/his thoughts and perceptions, and it's all filtered through her/him. There's no sudden flashbacks from another character's POV, no omniscient godlike perceptions so you know everybody's thoughts and perceptions. That's all.

You're not stupid. Some of the nuances of this stuff are complicated, hence why I asked for assistance. ;)

[kerryblaze.livejournal.com]

I'd say it if it's 3rd person PoV, then Ron would have to ackowledge that he didn't know what it meant. Maybe something like, "...Draco said. Ron didn't know what the phrase meant, but the sarcasm used to say it was very clear."

[thrihyrne.livejournal.com]

He actually does acknowledge that he doesn't get it right after that- I didn't give enough of the scene. Draco says the French phrase because Ron's just told him he has a new intern coming in to work with him from France. Draco says "Quel dommage," and he's not sorry, but what he's not sorry about is the fact that the French guy will be interning for Ron. He's not at all apologetic about using French. ;) I'll figure something out. Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts!

[lena3.livejournal.com]

I can't help you at all with the POV, but...oh, Who Killed the Electric Car! That docu gets me every time and especially embarrasses me cause it happened in my state! My green, recycle-conscious, has electric stations and people who use them, state!

*cries*

I got your note and will email you this weekend. Thank you, sweets. ♥

[thrihyrne.livejournal.com]

It's okay, sweetie! Your state is a very complicated, heavily-populated one that's practically several countries. :P

Glad you got my little letter! I just love sitting down and writing to you, in a chair, with my stationery in my lap. ♥

[lena3.livejournal.com]

It's okay, sweetie! Your state is a very complicated, heavily-populated one that's practically several countries. :P

Yes! This makes me feel better because now that I think about it, it's my *county* that is...green, recycle-conscious, and has electric stations that people use!

[brumeux77.livejournal.com]

Looks like everyone's sorted this out for you while I was offline. So I'm only commenting for the purpose of throwing in some hugs.

*hugs*

[thrihyrne.livejournal.com]

Oh sweetheart, you're the one who could use some hugs!! Somehow I hadn't realized quite how many medical things you had going on. I'm a bad friend; my apologies.

((((warm, comforting hugs))))

[stuckinsea.livejournal.com]

If you still want to keep in Ron's POV, you could always have him say something wise as Ron would do in his head.

And of course Malfoy has to be a shit and spout off some French phrase, knowing full well the only words I know are the naughty ones that Fleur told me

Something like that, maybe? That way Draco would still be in character and not giving a shit if Ron understands or not...that make sense?

It sounds as if you're at least going to have a nice movie night. I hope the rest of the day went well.

Hugs and Kisses to you my, dear heart.

MWAH!

[thrihyrne.livejournal.com]

I like your suggestion! I'll be getting back to that one later on today; have to finish up this H/R and then write the next scene in the new shiburi!R/D and :then: go back to MI. It's craziness, but fun!!

:::MWAH!!:::

Gorgeous icon, too. That picture should inspire dozens of fics. I should write at least one. :meep:

[stuckinsea.livejournal.com]

I have to say, it's my new fav R/D. I got it made by so_severus over at d0rk_icons. So I'm pretty happy about the way it came out.

I like your suggestion! I'll be getting back to that one later on today; have to finish up this H/R and then write the next scene in the new shiburi!R/D and :then: go back to MI. It's craziness, but fun!!

I was hoping it made sense. That way I guess it covers all bases and not having you bust a head gasket trying to figure out the situation...lol.

Wow, you're going to be busy. And I can't wait to see all the results.

MWAH!

[stuckinsea.livejournal.com]

I was reading up on Shibari. On wikipedia and wow, now I really can't wait to read your story. Just knowing the history of it all, I'm really intrigued about what made Draco pick such a kink. Love it. Okay, now I'm all a flutter...lol.

MWAH!

[thrihyrne.livejournal.com]

Isn't it... intriguing?? I'm not sure yet how he picked it up, though I suspect he saw it going on at a sex club and gave it a try and discovered that it dovetailed into some other aspects of himself he hadn't quite owned up to. Hee. Over 9000 words and he's yet even to get out his silk ropes. This one won't be short. *g*

Hmmmm. I need to make a solo Draco icon. That is decidedly lacking in my list.

[kymyrra.livejournal.com]

I guess I would want to know what's behind Draco's use of the phrase and Ron's level of understanding of Draco's intent. Is it
1) BritSnob!Draco: Ugh! You got saddled with a lowly frog? Can't they hire our own kind anymore?;
2) Unempath!Draco: Oh poor you, to be saddled with an intern who'll do all your work for you;
3) Jealous!Draco: I bet you requested some femme frog boy that you can drool over all day. You're already planning how to bed him, aren't you?;
4) Smut!Draco: Ooh, an exotic plaything for us! (foreshadowing a M/M/M pairing?).

If it's the first, you could use "tant pis", "so much the worse." Similar to "quel dommage" but less emphatic, and Ron definitely wouldn't know what it meant (but not as recognizable as French). It's probably splitting hairs, but somehow it seems to make difference in the interaction. Does Ron understand and appreciate what Draco is trying to say even if he doesn't understand the words?

Hugs to you, girl,
B

Oooooh, a mystery, you are!

[thrihyrne.livejournal.com]

I love all of your thoughts behind the different options (and as much as I drool over idea #4, it won't happen in this fic), and using "tant pis" is an excellent suggestion.

In looking at your LJ, obviously you're someone who knows me, or I'm merely thinking more of myself than I should. Can't place you yet, though. ;) Thank you so much for your insight!

:wanders off, mulling over who you might be:

Re: Oooooh, a mystery, you are!

[kymyrra.livejournal.com]

Ahh, now, who doesn't need a little mystery in their life now and then?

Now i'm wondering how much my profile is revealing. I was confident you would have placed me from the clues I sprinkled around there and in my post, and given our recent contact. But out of earshot, out of mind, I suppose... ;)

:slips back into the shadows:

Re: Oooooh, a mystery, you are!

[thrihyrne.livejournal.com]

No, now I have you pegged. :) I've added you to my flist, so you'll see many more of the entries that are locked to my flist only. Welcome!