Editor questions- and a side question for Tolkien folks about Elves and horses

[thrihyrne]

I've realized that I get almost as giddy when someone I've beta'ed for posts a fic and lists me as a beta (usually myself and someone else; two sets of eyes are always better than one!) and writes that I was astute, perceptive, or something similar, as I do when I receive reviews for my own stories that laud the story and/or my wordcraft. I really love editing. I seem to be pretty good at it. It would be really cool to earn money for writing, especially writing gay erotica with plot. Or just plotty stuff with gay sex as part of it. But I still think I'd enjoy doing that on the side, at my own pace, and being paid to edit fiction. Especially reading good authors. I finished reading I Know This Much is True by Wally Lamb and cried. I don't do that very often, and it wasn't because it was the most gorgeously written book in the world, nor the most innovative and heart-wrenching (I sobbed the last few pages of His Dark Materials); it was because I really felt for the main character, and I really admired Lamb's clean prose and the overarching story. I think I could be a helpful editor for writers, and would love to do that, but there don't seem to be degree programs in editing. Am I missing something? Do you have to simply get into it somehow, and then people get your name out there? Or do you pay your penance at a newspaper or magazine or something and then segue into fiction?


I'm writing on my Gimlific and need to find my copy of The Hobbit, but I have a question about Elves and horses: obviously they ride them, because Glorfindel (Elf Not Appearing In The Peter Jackson Films) shows up on one, and I think back in the First and Second Ages I'm sure they're on horses. Elrond's twin sons I assume ride when scouting out with Aragorn while the hobbits and Gimli hang out at the Last Homely House. But how about the Elves up in Mirkwood? I don't have the sense that they're keen equestrians. I'm speculating; I've not gone looking for any information. I'm just working on this most recent Gimlific and Legolas hops up merrily on Arod when Éomer offers him up, but I think Gimli might wonder how on earth Legolas knows how to ride, given that Gimli (to my mind) fought in the Battle of Five Armies and the Mirkwood Elves showed up on foot... I think. Thoughts?

Comments

[earth-dragon.livejournal.com]

legolas was a prince, tho; he may have been especially taught how to ride (given his princely duties and all.) i haven't looked things up in a while myself, so like you, i can't be sure; but i don't recall the mirkwood elves being very equestrian. i do believe they traveled more on foot, when they had to travel at all. they weren't prone to leaving their own area much, were they? i don't even seem to recall them being mentioned until the third age, at least not specifically by name.

like i said, tho, it's been a while...

[thrihyrne.livejournal.com]

Thanks for that! I won't go into what I'd written, but the implication was that he'd spent time in Rivendell in his youth, and got used to riding there. But surely he rode to Rivendell in the first place, so I think I'll just be vague.

[brumeux77.livejournal.com]

If Gimli's never come across a big person who didn't know how to ride, it might not seem strange to him that Legolas can. I don't remember any horses in The Hobbit either, but then the Mirkwood elves weren't coming from a great distance, so that might explain it to him.

[thrihyrne.livejournal.com]

True enough- I hadn't thought of that. I won't go into it, but I love writing Gimli-Legolas-becoming-friends dialogue, and thought Gimli might wonder how a Mirkwood Elf is such a natural around horses. I'll probably keep it vague. In my fic I have Legolas saying that he spent some of his youth in Rivendell, and became familiar with horses at that point. Ah, the joy of gapfilling!

[lena3.livejournal.com]

Would you need a Master's in English? When I did my master's thesis, I had someone edit my work, which God knows I needed, I think she had a degree in English... Would matildabishop know? Or start small, I suppose, looking over people's college application essays and such.

I talked to her this morning and that was a treat! :D

[thrihyrne.livejournal.com]

Probably a Master's, yes; I'll ask Matt next time I talk with her. Isn't she great to talk with?! I've really grown to look forward to our weekly conversations. :D

[lena3.livejournal.com]

Matt is an incredibly nifty lady!

I got my card today! Oh, I love it! :D

[kerryblaze.livejournal.com]

I seem to be pretty good at it.

The best!!! *loves*

[thrihyrne.livejournal.com]

The best!!! *loves*



I don't ever have to work hard with your stories; in fact, the people I beta for now it really is fun to do. Probably why I'm so biased in wanting to do it for a living!! **loves back**

[telperion1.livejournal.com]

Thevina, I just searched my etext of _The Hobbit_, and there's no mention of the Mirkwood elves reminding them. On the other hand the men of Laketown do have horses (Thorin&Co. are met by baggage horses and a pony for Bilbo, gratis the Mayor.) So the Elves would certainly have the opportunity to acquire them in trade even if they weren't native. Out of fairness I should say that Beorn forbids the dwarves to take his horses into Mirkwood, but I think that's more out of not wanting animals that are essentially pets to be in a land he rightly considers dangerous for those who don't know it.

That said... I would think that a horse wouldn't be much use in a forest as wild as Mirkwood, and if there are baddies wandering around you might not want something that could be spooked. Especially given that Nazgul are in southern Mirkwood and Frodo tells Gandalf that "all other animals [besides their mounts] are terrified when they draw near".

So there are mixed signals and I think you could go either way. My own opinion is that the elves had horses for when their travels took them beyond Mirkwood. If you need to go to the Iron Hills or Gondor or Lothlorien or wherever, it just doesn't make sense to go on foot. Also the fact that Legolas is described as a messenger when he arrives in Rivendell makes me think there's a whole group of people who are used to travelling outside of Mirkwood, even if just to Laketown. It doesn't make sense for those people to not to ride, since horses are available.

You want my opinion? At least some elves would probably know how to ride, but it wouldn't be the common mode of transportation inside Mirkwood itself.

[thrihyrne.livejournal.com]

That all makes good sense. I just figured that Gimli might ask Legolas where he learned his 'insta-affinity' of riding, and riding without bridle or saddle, especially since he's from Mirkwood. I had taken the liberty of Legolas saying he'd spent some of his youth in Rivendell, and that was where he learned his skills. :shrug: It could have happened, since JRRT is so vague about Legolas' background!! ;) I really do appreciate your commentary; thank you so very much.

[telperion1.livejournal.com]

Ooh, someone out there doesn't mind my meandering mind. Glad to be of service. Yes, what you're describing seems reasonable enough to me. ANd like I said there's enough contradicting canon suggestions to make either possibility plausible.

*love* the icon, btw...

[thrihyrne.livejournal.com]

Yes, what you're describing seems reasonable enough to me.

Good to hear that! Now I'm getting into slightly stickier ground to reference one of my first fanfic 100 Gimli-centric vignettes, or maybe not. It might be too much for Gimli to bring up verbally; he may just think it.

Thanks about the icon! I made it, and it's one of my absolute faves, too. ;)

[telperion1.livejournal.com]

You made the icon? Is there any chance that I could use it? Would obviously credit you. And do feel free to say no - but it can't hurt to ask. :^D

[thrihyrne.livejournal.com]

You made the icon? Is there any chance that I could use it? Would obviously credit you.

Heck yeah! Go for it, if you credit me. ;) I realized there weren't as many Gimli icons, or Dwarves in general, so I made a few. I also got all into things as gifts about 18 months ago and made a slew of Éowyn-oriented icons. Frankly, I love your The Hobbit map icon, there. Yay!

[telperion1.livejournal.com]

Okay, and will obviously credit. :-) I do like to let people know about how makes the awesome icons I use, because I can't do it. In that vein, the map one is by the ever-talented juno_magic.

And having just looked through your icons, specifically the H/R ones, I'm reminded of what Sam said about Frodo: "I love him. He's like that, and sometimes it shines through, somehow. But I love him, whether or no." If you buy Harry/Ron, I think that slightly magical quality Harry has would be a big part of the attraction. Harry is special, and lifts Ron into a special place by association.

[honor74.livejournal.com]

You are the best beta, as you combine the technical/grammatical with encouragement. Hell, you know what I think care of TQP, lol. I think you would either have to have a journalism degree with a very strong background in English, or vice versa.

My copy of The Hobbit is buried somewhere in my daughter's room, but telperion1 pretty much covered what my thoughts were.

[thrihyrne.livejournal.com]

You are the best beta, as you combine the technical/grammatical with encouragement. Hell, you know what I think care of TQP, lol. I think you would either have to have a journalism degree with a very strong background in English, or vice versa.

Thank you for that; I do like to be both encouraging as well as instructive. Excellent thoughts on the editing part. I'll need to start doing some serious investigating over time.

[anna-wing.livejournal.com]

I don't have my copy of The Hobbit with me, but I have a vague recollection of a bit of the Mirkwood scene where the company hears the sound of a hunt. Now, the only hunt that they would be likely to hear would be a chase, not a stalk, ie on horseback. Also the forest near the Elf-King's stronghold was more open and traversable, so horses would be able to run reasonably easily. Anyway, we have no idea how old Legolas is or where he's been or what he's done in the past, so he could have learned to ride anywhere. Or he could be a total novice, just using superior Elvish communication and balance skills to deal with the horse.

[thrihyrne.livejournal.com]

Or he could be a total novice, just using superior Elvish communication and balance skills to deal with the horse.

In the story thus far, I'd incorporated Legolas spending some time in Rivendell, but also insinuating just what you've said, which, perhaps rightly, pisses Gimli off somewhat. ;) Thanks for your two cents, and more!

[mrsquizzical.livejournal.com]

well, thev, my mother just recently did an editing/proof reading course. there was guaranteed work at the end, and it seemed to be that you did that for 6-12 months and then could use that as your experience to put on your c.v. for applying for jobs.

there was some sort of proficiency type thingo to get into it - they sent a bunch of stuff and gave directions of things to look for/correct. unfortunately she's not well and ended up not completing the course, but she found it wonderfully stimulating etc because it was online/computer type editing, but also the old fashioned way with a red pen and a series of codes - not unlike shorthand. there were also discussions about style etc.

i'm sure if you googled and asked at colleges you'd find a few options - especially for the states.

[thrihyrne.livejournal.com]

That's fabulous information, Mrs. Q! Thank you very much. That's one of the tremendous things about LJ; I can put out a question or two and get all kinds of helpful responses in return. :)

I'm sure you're counting down to your trip, too… I'm giddy on your behalf! I've been seeing pics from a few other people on my flist, off in England meeting friends and I can't wait to read about your adventures up there.

Oh, and I still need to make an Aussie icon! Writing you reminds me of that, every time.

[mrsquizzical.livejournal.com]

i'm glad that was heartening info. *grins*

and yes i'm getting really excited. it will be here before i know it!

*squeeflail*

[anna-wing.livejournal.com]

There are a lot of blogs about by editors and agents. You could try enquiring there. alg and the website Making Light http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/ are run by people from Tor. There's also a chap called Evil Editor http://evileditor.blogspot.com/

[thrihyrne.livejournal.com]

Excellent. Thank you so much!

[sophiamaria03.livejournal.com]

Since you're near a college you could advertise to do editing for theses and such. That would give you some more experience and money (as opposed to betaing, which you sure do just for the joy of it!). Though I'm not sure if many masters theses have any boysex. :)

[risiepookie.livejournal.com]

You DEFINITELY are beyond good at it- you are awesome!!!

I don't know exactly how one gets into editing, but I hope you find a way into it, because so many people could benefit from the amazing feedback you provide. I love getting chapters back from you, because I know you have helped me to make them so much stronger and the story so much more enjoyable to read.

So, thank you for sharing your talents with me. I feel very lucky to not only count you as a close friend, but as my beta. I've told you this before, but I really do credit you with stretching me and pushing me to be the best writer I possibly can be and it shows. Each chapter is progressively better than the last, even before you see them, because of what you have passed along to me. You have taught me lasting lessons in what makes effective prose and I know that has impacted everything I write. You have beyond surpassed my wildest dreams of what someone can help me accomplish as a writer. For all of that, and so much more, I thank you, so very much.

::hugs my dear, dear friend:: :o)