Slash meta #3 (and probably final): please discuss!

[thrihyrne]

Thank you so much for those involved thus far! Feel free to ask friends who you think would be interested in sharing their views who may not know me from Eve's housecat and send them on over. All of these posts are public, but you do have to be a registered LJ'er. Women only, however, for this particular article.

My final question, and the crux in some ways of what I think I'll focus on for the article: if you're an R to NC-17 slasher, whether writing, reading, artist, viewer of art, vidder or video viewer, when the characters get intimate with one another, are you strictly a voyeur, do you do a bit of self-insert of a sort into one or both of the characters, or is it a combination? If a combination, does it depend on the pairing/fandom/something else? In other words, are you just watching the men together, or are you putting yourself into the action, but within the body of one or both of them? I'll be very interested to read your comments as this, I think, is what fascinates me the most. And hopefully will be interesting to Filament readers!

Comments

[brumeux77.livejournal.com]

I've sometimes been regretful that I'm disqualified for these...

[gingerspark.livejournal.com]

when I write (whether or not the characters are intimate) I am always trying to "get inside their heads". I do that because I'm trying to think like the character and not like me.

Does that make sense? I'm trying to have the action be as much like that of a character who has been through the background story that I invented for them, and not like me jumping into their story with a Mary Sue wish-fulfillment for me.

Is that what you're looking for?

[sexyscholar.livejournal.com]

Hmmm.

I think I would describe myself as strictly a voyeur. That being said, however, I do try to get into the characters' heads, to work out their motivations for wanting this, that or the other thing. And, more often than not, the characters' kinks are really kinks of my own that I get to play out in the form of fic.

I hope that's the kind of answer you're looking for. :/

[me-ya-ri.livejournal.com]

Well, as a reader I'm strictly a voyeur. I'm watching the action rather than being a participant in it. It's a very rare thing for me to actually feel like I'm IN the action, as it were.

As a writer, on the other hand, I try very hard to actually be in the POV character. I feel like I write better when I'm strongly within that character's head, especially for writing sex which is always a challenge. I feel like my smut gets too clinical when I write as an observer.

Of course, whether a reader or a writer I'm more focused on the emotional connection between the characters than on the actual mechanics. I generally don't need minute detail to figure out what they're doing physically. A vivid imagination is a big help here! *laughs*

That said, a lot of the time in slash stories I skim over the sex rather than poring over it intensely. As I said before, I'm there for the characters and the development, not the porn. Unless the porn has something in it that shows how the sex is changing their perceptions / lives / relationships (or confirming it) it's just not that interesting to me.

Hope that helps or at least adds another data point!

[jaiden-s.livejournal.com]

For me, it’s a combination that, frankly, depends on my mood. The pairing itself doesn’t matter. If I’m feeling sexually aggressive, I might imagine myself as the top (or seme in yaoi manga). It fills that urge. To be honest, I rarely imagine myself as a bottom. Mostly, though, I find myself watching as a voyeur.

The more attracted I am to one of the males, the more likely I am to self insert as his partner…especially in visual mediums. I do that with hetero parings, too, so that’s not unique to slash.

For me, one of the real attractions of slash is watching two persons of equal standing come together. With M/F parings, the female is generally the weaker partner. She’s the one receiving the love. The male is almost always the aggressor. I like watching two males because either can give or receive. I like that there are no preconceptions or rules to their coupling. They will love each other in a way that feels natural to them.

[aruna-now.livejournal.com]

Well, personally, whether I write or read, I am not a participant. I do feel in tune with my favourite characters, but I never put myself in their place in my imagination. I would guess this is because I LOVE the characters, but not so much myself. Being "there" would make it unrealistic and not very interesting for me, because I know they wouldn´t touch me even with a stick in reality, and I don´t even want to watch myself having sex in my head xD Saying that, ironically, it would be quite easy to imagine myself in somebody´s place, as I am a guy.

[heartofoshun.livejournal.com]

First qualifier is that I don't write the most detailed and/or graphic love scenes. Generally don't enjoy reading the more specific ones either. They quickly become too clinical for me to hold onto the hottest part of the evoked eroticism. Not saying I do fades-to-black, but a little detail can go a long way toward enticing the reader and too much detail runs the risk of losing the universality of appeal (we all have very different tastes). I do write explicit love scenes though.

I think I switch back and forth between the heads of the two individuals when creating a love scene. So in a sense I am projecting myself as each of them drawing on different real life experiences and emotional memories. This might seem odd in a M/M situation, but really it is not--we're all human. I also do research and try to keep true to my characters' created backstories, but there is almost never a case, at my age, where as a writer I cannot find a comparable personal emotional and/or intellectual reaction to fit the story I am writing. I think I am less of self-inserter in that I am not actually working out fantasies, although I wouldn't mind trying that sometime (there is always biography also), but I am more like a method actor in my writing than a blatant self-insert or seeking to fulfill a personal fantasy. I probably couldn't write something that would really turn me off in a love scene, but those actions are not working out my favorite fantasies as much as telling a story, unraveling a tangle relating to two characters.

I do a lot of thinking and talking about how to get inside of the male head, but there is a weakness and a bias in my method also. I tend to be opinionated about what I want to say in a story, if I don't get the answer I want, I tend to keep interviewing and/or reading until I find an argument that the element I want to include is not, in fact, impossible. I have two or three gay friends who have been very generous at answering my specific (and sometimes embarrassing) questions. I also frequently have a finished love scene "vetted" by a man. I suppose if there is an insert in some of these scenes it might be based on their experiences rather than my own. But the emotional veracity is all me. I'm not afraid to trust myself. I really don't think men and women are all that different. Men tend to be more emotionally guarded in a love scene and women more physically reserved, but even in real life that breaks down at a certain point in all of the most interesting relationships. (My men talk a lot, but then in my real life, I have gravitated toward talky men and come from a culture of big talkers--ever hear of blarney?)

Parenthetically, I have found writing stories in the Wreaththu fandom has been liberating, because I don't have to do as much second-guessing and research on gender-specific details. In all my other stories, I try to make sure that my men come across as "real guys" and not some woman's fantasy of a guy and particularly not me playing out a personal fantasy. With the Wraeththu stories I can just let 'er rip. It's fun mixing the male and female strengths and weaknesses, preferences and dislikes, in a single character. I still think I write them mainly as guys (think that is done in the original canon sources as well). I've always loved the title of Wraethtu fanfic novel, Butterflies with Guns. Also, what is the other expression? Fight like a man, cry like a woman. But I try to spare the reader my gender bending in my male/male romances. I do love to read that sort of slant when it is directly put forward, but not when the writer expects us to believe these are two regular guys, who realistically ought to reflect the prejudices and hang-ups of the societies in which they live.

[matildabishop.livejournal.com]

I am a voyeur. I think of slashing as a very passive way of being sexual. Sex at several removes. Not only am I not actually having sex, I don't feel any good or bad or indifferent identification with a female character. I feel let off the hook in some way.

I enjoy m/m pairings where one character has more power than the other. I don't enjoy m/f pairings where one character has more power, particularly if the more passive character is female. I can't help but identify with the female character and since it's so far from what I want in my own life right now I just get annoyed.

I also think of slashing as a very safe way of having sex as well. Not only is it fantasy but it's safe fantasy. I'm not fantasizing about my best friend's husband and possibly endangering my relationship with her, her husband or my husband.

[persephone100.livejournal.com]

I am all over the place on this one!

I think I mostly like to imagine being the character who gets to be with the one I would most like to be with. And if I'm in the pov of one of my oc's, I invent someone I would like to be with if I were them. But I don't imagine myself there! NEVER! I imagine being the character and experiencing what I imagine he would feel ,think, want, do, etc.

I prefer to write in the first person, but I also sometimes write as a voyeur. That is, I imagine a sex scene in my head like a movie. What the characters would say, their movements and facial expressions, etc. and then simply write it as I see it in my head.

When reading, I feel like I'm experiencing it but sometimes as one of the characters or both and sometimes as an observer.

Bottom line, either way I'm a self inserter only NEVER NEVER as myself!

Hope I'm making sense - if so, I guess that means there's a first time for everything. LOL!

[haldoor.livejournal.com]

I am definitely a voyeur. I never insert myself - well, I'm a girl and this is all about the men. Sometimes I think I want to be a man, as in experience sex from a man's perspective, but only as a gay guy. I have no interest in wanting to have sex as a man with a woman, I mean. But generally no, I don't actively think about that when I'm reading or writing slash; I'm always outside of the physical action, watching. I do, however, like to get into the emotional and sensual/physical sensations of the person whose POV I'm reading/writing. I want them to read as real and for me, how they feel is very important. I don't just want to know what happened, but how that affected them; how did they feel, both physically and emotionally about what was happening?

And yes, despite what I said about preferring the sensual aspect of them touching, I am perfectly happy reading or writing full-on porn as long as it's m/m! ;-)

[elfscribe5.livejournal.com]

I think this question is more about the nature of identifying with the characters one is reading about or writing about, i.e are you on the outside looking in (voyeur) or on the inside looking out (identifying). I think this holds true whenever we are reading about another person, whether they are having sex or doing any of a myriad other activities. When I write a character, I HAVE to understand him/her at some level even if I don't like the character or agree with his motivations. Understanding a character involves a certain amount of empathy and identification, I think. I have to get inside him. It's not a self-insert, i.e. this is me somehow climbing inside the character's skin and taking over his body to experience what he experiences, this is me identifying with this character's feelings and to some extent becoming that character. When I write two characters having sex, I have to understand the experience both characters are having. Depending on whether or not they are having a good time, that can translate to a vicarious good time for me. *g*

[leaf-light.livejournal.com]

Hi I'm coming to this a little late because I had to try writing some slash in addition to my usual reading of it to answer the whole thing properly. I've got a slightly different perspective as I'm lesbian - so same sex pairings whichever way feel more natural to me than het pairings. I discovered that writing it I'm using part imagination, part character traits I know are in me anyway, part memories. Reading it is pure voyeurism no matter what the setting or fandom, though I may strongly identify with one or other (sometimes both)of the characters, which isn't the same as seeing myself in his/their body, but more as an empathy with his/their situation/history if that makes sense. It doesn't alter with f/f for me either, so it isn't the m/m thing. I can't think of a single instance in my entire reading career where I've felt that I *am* any of the characters in literature, my voyeur nature is obviously too strong - or I just can't put myself into a fictional setting as someone else.